Heating control via relay + FTM 20 TF sensor

Support und Bugs Homeegramme, Pläne, Szenarien
#7

You have to distinguish between the trigger and the condition.
When the trigger comes true (e.g. temperature falls under 20°C) then (and only then) the conditions are checked. If all conditions are true, then (and only then) the action(s) will be done.
In your HGs your only trigger is the temperature rising over or falling under a target temperature.

03:32:35 temperature rises over 21°C so NIGTHMODE 1 OFF and NIGHTMODE 2 OFF both are triggerd, because their trigger was true. Only in NIGHTMODE1 OFF all conditions (timeframe+homemode) are true, so it should switch the relay off.

Looks like the at 00:34 the temperature fall under 22°C so both HGs were triggered, but in both the timeframe condition was not true so no action was taken.

Think about my approach to only activate the HGs you need during the actual timeframe and deactivate the others. You may use the same star/stop time in neighboring timeframes.

#8

Hello ch.krause,

I begin to understand it. I wonder how often is the trigger checked?

HG’s for afternoon:

NIGHTMODE 2 ON:
IF temperature falls under 20°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 09:00 - 13:30
ONLY IF mode is HOME
THEN switch relay ON

NIGHTMODE 2 OFF:
IF temperature rises over 21°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 09:00 - 13:30
ONLY IF mode is HOME
THEN switch relay OFF

AFTERNOON ON:
IF temperature falls under 22°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
ONLY IF mode is HOME
THEN switch relay ON

AFTERNOON OFF:
IF temperature falls under 23°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
ONLY IF mode is HOME
THEN switch relay OFF

Example:
When the actual temperature in 13:28 is 21,8°C (relay is OFF because of nightmode) and the same temperature is in 13:31 so relay will not switch ON/OFF because the temperature did not change? Will be the trigger fired at next temperature change (21,7°C or lower) or (even at 21,9°C)?

Question:
Is the trigger fired only when actual temperature is changed (at every temperature change)?

I am just trying to understand how the system exactly thinks and works to ensure functional controls.

Thank you for your help and patience with me.

#9

The trigger is checked as long as the HG is active. You can only trigger temperature changes:

temperature rises over XX
temperature falls under YY
temperature changes XX °C

No the trigger will not be fired because in the timeframe AFTERNOON ON/OFF because the target temperature is allready out of your desired hysteresis curve. The trigger is temperature is changing from higher than 22°C to lower than 22°C. If temperature is already below 22°C and is falling, the trigger will never be fired.
That is another special case to deal with in the activating/deactivating HGs I mentioned above.

#10

I see.
At this moment I solve only HOME mode.

So can I edit HG’s (for example for AFTERNOON) like that? Please see below. Could it be like that?

AFTERNOON ON:
IF temperature falls under 22°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
ONLY IF mode is HOME
THEN switch relay ON
THEN deactivate all the other HG’s (NIGHTMODE 1, 2, 3, MOORNING)
THEN activate AFTERNOON ON, OFF?

AFTERNOON OFF:
IF temperature falls under 23°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
ONLY IF mode is HOME
THEN switch relay OFF
THEN deactivate all the other HG’s (NIGHTMODE 1, 2, 3, MOORNING)?
THEN activate actual HG’s (AFTERNOON ON, OFF)?

Is it also necessary to switch the relay OFF at this case?

Thank you for your help.

#11

I would try another attempt. You should seperate the timeframe from the temperatur to get two independent triggers:

Use the this HGs to deal with the timeframes:

HG: AFTERNOON HOME
TRIGGER: IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
AND IF mode is HOME
THEN activate HG AFTERNOON HOME ON
AND activeate HG AFTERNOON HOME OFF
AND deactivate all the other HGs

HG: AFTERNOON HOME ON:
IF temperature falls under 22°C
OR IF temperature falls under 20°C (<- in case it is already below 22°C when activated)
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
THEN switch relay ON

HG: AFTERNOON HOME OFF:
IF temperature rises over 23°C
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
THEN switch relay OFF

So the activation of the hysteresis is separated from the timeframe and let you define to independed trigger points (timeframe and temperature).
This will not solve the problem with the overlapping temperatures when switching the from one timeframe to another (see example above).

#12

[quote=“ch.krause, post:11, topic:16572”]
HG: AFTERNOON HOME
TRIGGER: IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
AND IF mode is HOME
THEN activate HG AFTERNOON HOME ON
AND activeate HG AFTERNOON HOME OFF
AND deactivate all the other HGs

HG: AFTERNOON HOME ON:
IF temperature falls under 22°C
OR IF temperature falls under 20°C (<- in case it is already below 22°C when activated)
ONLY IF MO-SUN 13:30 to 22:00
THEN switch relay ON

Hello,

I understand and I am going to make such as HGs. The only thing which is not possible is to set timeframe in IF (as a trigger). There is only time. Is there any other solution for this?

What about NIGHTFRAME - should I also put the condition:
OR IF temperature falls under …?

Thank you

#13

You are right. We habe to change the trigger in the firt HGs to the modes in the second HGs to the temperature and use the timeframe as a condition. Maybe the works.

Or you wait until the next release of the firmware. There is a heating control anounced for the next release.

#14

Hello,
I have to say it is quite complicated. It is necessary to create lots of programs to control it.
Do you know when will be the next beta version released?

#15

As you can see here:

the release dates are:

grafik

The beta will be out about two week before the release. Must be around the end of November.

#16

Thank’s for the info. I can not speak german very well so I have to translate it via translator.

#17

No problem :grinning:

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#18

Hello ch.krause!
I am still trying to solve it up and thinking about that heating programs settings…

One timeframe:

HG AFTERNOON ON
TRIGGER: mode HOME
CONDITION: MO-SUN
CONDITION: Temperature is lower than 23°C
CONDITION: Temperature is higher than 22°C
THEN: Switch relay ON

HG AFTERNOON OFF
TRIGGER: mode HOME
CONDITION: MO-SUN
CONDITION: Temperature is higher than 23°C
THEN: Switch relay OFF

What do you think about that? Will be the relay switch ON anytime when the actual room temperature is between 22 and 23°C? I mean e.g. 22,1 or 22,2 or 22,3 or 22,4 etc…?
The condition is LOWER THEN or HIGHER THEN
The trigger is FALLING UNDER or RISING OVER

#19

As I can see from your HGs your trigger is:

and nothing else. The other are conditions that are only checked if the trigger is fired.
Your trigger is true only in the moment when you change the mode from any other mode to HOME.

#20

Hello,

OK, now I know that it is only at the precise moment and never again.
So how to manage that the system will watch the trigger for certain time period?

In previous message I ment that when the teperature is as a TRIGGER so we can choose TEMPERATURE FALLING UNDER or RISING OVER

And When the teperature is used as a CONDITION so we can choose if TEMPERATURE is LOWER THEN or HIGHER THEN. I asked if when is the temperature used as a condition, if it switch the relay ON if the temperature is between 22 and 23°C? I mean e.g. 22,1 or 22,2 or 22,3 or 22,4 etc…?

HG AFTERNOON ON
TRIGGER: ???
CONDITION: MO-SUN
CONDITION: Temperature is lower than 23°C
CONDITION: Temperature is higher than 22°C
THEN: Switch relay ON

HG AFTERNOON OFF
TRIGGER: ???
CONDITION: MO-SUN
CONDITION: Temperature is higher than 23°C
THEN: Switch relay OFF

Thank you

#21

You allways need a trigger. A trigger may be:

a change of the mode
a time (with or without date)
an event off sensor (wallswitch, temperature that reaches a targettemperature,…)
an event off a HG (started, stopped, activated, deactivated)
a weather event
a sunset event
a webhook
when the HG will be triggerd by another HG

It is allways a change of state (e.g. “falls under”) not a status (e.g. “is lower than”).

The condition is a status not a change of state

Mode is or is not XY
timerange (ontime, daily, weekly or special)
status of a sensor (not the change of the state!)
status of a HG (is/isnot running, is/is not active)
state of the weather
state of the sunset

#22

Hello ch.krause,

Thank you for clear explanation of the system function. Now I know how does the it works.
It has to be created lots of HG’s to control heating.

I have downloaded the Beta version 2.22 and tried to test it. Unfortunately it looks that in this version are supported only thermostats but not temperature sensors. Am I right?

#23

I have not downloaded the beta right now, but reading the other threads it seem so.
You may define a heating profile for a thermostat by setting its targettemparature depending on weekdays, timeframes an the mode. It is not possible to use this to drive a relay switcheing on/off wallplug for electical heating for example or a relay for the gasboiler in your case.

#24

How can I contact developer to suggest him integration this relay + temperature sensor heating control?

#25

You are not the only one with a similar combination. It is allready suggested by others. They have electronic heating devices which they want to switch on/off with a smart wallplug.

If you use a thermostat to controll the temperature in the room, you only have to set the target temperature according to your heating plan and other events (home, away, asleep, hollyday, window open, …)

If you don*t use a thermostat and have a pair of targettemperatures to handle the hystereis yourself.

These are totally diffenent approaches to program in the gui.

Suggestions for features and smartdevices are placed here:

https://community.hom.ee/c/geraet-vorschlagen

A suggestion will have a status set by the homee developers when viewed:

geplant = planned
gestartet = integration has started
umgesetzt = is integrated
abgelehnt = rejected

If it has no status it is not reviewed.

#26

I see.
Thank you